There's no second place in our new enlightened marxist state. Only 'deferred success'. But UKIP had less votes than Labour. Then Tories had less than UKIP. Lib Dems crashed and have the most deferred success to look forward to so are maybe the real winners ;)
If you must take ANYTHING from the results, take the fact that the same result rarely happens in a general election, they are an opportunity for the electorate (less than 30% in this case) to have a protest vote.
As it stands the Empire Loyalists and little Englanders won't manage anything similar in a general election.
The Lib Dems were found out when they joined the coalition and can never again claim to be any better than the two 'tired old parties'. UKIP will now be the party of protest in the future. They will have to work hard to be heard though as the BBC etc are pro Europe and will hate them.
I think Don has a point but if AV is adopted you might find the 'protest' vote has more of a sway both within the media and change the electon outcomes.
You might vote Tory/Labour/Lib but choose UKIP/BNP/Green as your second choice as the alternative of a 'major' party might be an anathema to you. In time you might see that the protest vote has a sway and the media will have to acknowledge this.
(Richard, the difference between 2nd and 6th was @8% of ⅓ of the electorate. And as such the position of any of the candidates is insignificant either way - pin a red rosette on a sheep and it would win in Barnsley)
No disagreement there - although if the sheep were from Lancashire it might struggle a bit.
Your point about AV and the protest vote is about the only convincing one I have seen in favour of AV, and it's the reason I won't automatically vote 'no' in the referendum. I can't see any way out of the 2.5 party pendulum without some way of allowing people to express a 'second-best' option. People say that AV would benefit the BNP but then if it would, it's because it should. I hold no brief for racism, but at the moment there is a strong stream of opinion which is being completely ignored at government level, and that can't be good. Same for the anti-EU sentiments. Millions of people having their voices ignored, and they wonder why people are disenchanted with politics.
" if AV is adopted you might find the 'protest' vote has more of a sway"
We've got a type of AV in Scottish council and national elections and I've noticed a few things that would definitely make me say NO2AV. Assuming it's similar to our AV system.
1. A candidate could win most votes in a seat but not get elected if he doesn't reach a certain percentage. In effect all of his votes were wasted. The person who came second could win through the second and third choice of vote etc. I always only vote for one candidate and never go for the 1st to 5th candidate option. It's possible to vote SNP first and get a Tory MSP / councillor.
2. If the BNP or UKIP etc are seen to be doing well then the media could easily stop their progression by telling people to stop voting for 2nd or 3rd choices. Either get the liblabcon guy through on the 1st vote or if he doesn't win enough for an outright majority then go for a new election.
3.The public are totally clueless about all this AV stuff and thousands of votes are regularly spoiled at our Scottish elections.
4. A 'list' system exists in Scotland where total numbnuts are given a seat despite being useless and not wanted by the electorate. Candidates go onto to this wishlist by being time servers or knowing where the bodies are buried. They didn't get elected by the people so were put on the 'list'
5. I doubt if it's accidental that all of the points about AV aren't being discussed on the tv. The AV system suits the little clique of pro EU / multicultural/ agw scam sht=ysters that run the country.
There's no second place in our new enlightened marxist state. Only 'deferred success'.
ReplyDeleteBut UKIP had less votes than Labour. Then Tories had less than UKIP. Lib Dems crashed and have the most deferred success to look forward to so are maybe the real winners ;)
It was a by-election.
ReplyDeleteIf you must take ANYTHING from the results, take the fact that the same result rarely happens in a general election, they are an opportunity for the electorate (less than 30% in this case) to have a protest vote.
As it stands the Empire Loyalists and little Englanders won't manage anything similar in a general election.
Turnout was 36.5%.
ReplyDeleteThe point of the post was not the result, it was the BBC's reporting of it.
As you say, by-elections should not be relied upon for predictions of trends, but they can be interesting.
The Lib Dems were found out when they joined the coalition and can never again claim to be any better than the two 'tired old parties'.
ReplyDeleteUKIP will now be the party of protest in the future. They will have to work hard to be heard though as the BBC etc are pro Europe and will hate them.
I think Don has a point but if AV is adopted you might find the 'protest' vote has more of a sway both within the media and change the electon outcomes.
ReplyDeleteYou might vote Tory/Labour/Lib but choose UKIP/BNP/Green as your second choice as the alternative of a 'major' party might be an anathema to you. In time you might see that the protest vote has a sway and the media will have to acknowledge this.
(Richard, the difference between 2nd and 6th was @8% of ⅓ of the electorate. And as such the position of any of the candidates is insignificant either way - pin a red rosette on a sheep and it would win in Barnsley)
No disagreement there - although if the sheep were from Lancashire it might struggle a bit.
ReplyDeleteYour point about AV and the protest vote is about the only convincing one I have seen in favour of AV, and it's the reason I won't automatically vote 'no' in the referendum. I can't see any way out of the 2.5 party pendulum without some way of allowing people to express a 'second-best' option. People say that AV would benefit the BNP but then if it would, it's because it should. I hold no brief for racism, but at the moment there is a strong stream of opinion which is being completely ignored at government level, and that can't be good. Same for the anti-EU sentiments. Millions of people having their voices ignored, and they wonder why people are disenchanted with politics.
Voyager..
ReplyDelete" if AV is adopted you might find the 'protest' vote has more of a sway"
We've got a type of AV in Scottish council and national elections and I've noticed a few things that would definitely make me say NO2AV. Assuming it's similar to our AV system.
1. A candidate could win most votes in a seat but not get elected if he doesn't reach a certain percentage. In effect all of his votes were wasted. The person who came second could win through the second and third choice of vote etc. I always only vote for one candidate and never go for the 1st to 5th candidate option. It's possible to vote SNP first and get a Tory MSP / councillor.
2. If the BNP or UKIP etc are seen to be doing well then the media could easily stop their progression by telling people to stop voting for 2nd or 3rd choices. Either get the liblabcon guy through on the 1st vote or if he doesn't win enough for an outright majority then go for a new election.
3.The public are totally clueless about all this AV stuff and thousands of votes are regularly spoiled at our Scottish elections.
4. A 'list' system exists in Scotland where total numbnuts are given a seat despite being useless and not wanted by the electorate. Candidates go onto to this wishlist by being time servers or knowing where the bodies are buried. They didn't get elected by the people so were put on the 'list'
5. I doubt if it's accidental that all of the points about AV aren't being discussed on the tv. The AV system suits the little clique of pro EU / multicultural/ agw scam sht=ysters that run the country.